[Leaf]

This is sorta bred from a thread I just started in the strategy forum, "T2, the tech that time forgot." It got me thinking about seige bots in general.

Now, Cybran & UEF Seige bots have shields (I think, I'm sure UEF do), yet Aeon don't. Trouble is, since we see almost no UEF vs Aeon replays (everybody plays Aeon, *snore*) it's hard to tell. The unit stats page on this site gave me the following info.

land Unit #UEL0303
          Titan
          Siege Assault Bot
 
    *
 
      Class:
          Indirect Fire
 
Stats
    Max Health:
    1000
    Max Speed:
    2.9
 
Resources
    Build Cost Energy: 1000
    Build Cost Mass: 1000
    Energy Consumption: -
 
Weapons           Damage     Max radius/range     Refire rate     Firing Randomness
Heavy Plasma Cannon     x1      50     32                       2           -
Death Nuke                   x1       200            1            1        -
Tactical Warhead        x1         5000       75                 5            -
Nuclear Warhead        x1         10000     1024                5           -
Death Nuke                  x1        200           1                     1        -
 
Full Desctiprion
    This Siege Assault Bot fires homing rockets out of it's head! 
    It also has some type of energy based weapons firing from the arms.

    *
 
      land Unit #URL0303
          Loyalist
          Siege Assault Bot
 
    *
 
      Class:
          Indirect Fire
 
Stats
    Max Health:
    1000
    Max Speed:
    3
    Footprint X:
    -
    Footprint Y:
    -
 
Resources
    Build Cost Energy: 1000
    Build Cost Mass: 1000
    Energy Consumption: -
 
Weapons           Damage     Max radius/range     Refire rate     Firing Randomness
Disintegrator Pulse Laser     x1     50     32     3     -
Heavy Electron Bolter     x1     5     32     3     -
EMP     x1     1     1.5     0.5     -
Heavy Microwave Laser     x1     200     22     1     -
Nanite Torpedo     x1     75     32     0.5     -
 
Full Desctiprion
    This Siege Assault Bot charges up it's gun and fires 3
    consecutive projectiles that fly in a direct path trajectory. 
   Also has an ECM laser.

Right, depending on what "refire rate" actually means (is it the time inbetween firing, or some kind of measurement of speed?), the main weapon of the Cybran/UEF Seige bot is remarkably similar in stats, aside from a difference in 'refire rate'. The UEF Seige Bot's other weapons aren't listed, so I can't tell how they rate with the Cybran. It'd be nice to try a straight 1v1, Cybran Seige bot vs UEF.

The stats give no info about shields (or the lack of) and seem to have grossly underestimated HP values (an awful lot of units appear to have '1000' hp). Interestingly, the Aeon Seige Bot isn't listed at all.

This isn't a dig at the unit stats page, the feature is well thought out and very helpful, it just doesn't answer the question. So, I put it to you, who has the best Bots?

[ConneXionDVA]

I have no idea, like i said in another post... The best bots are the bots controlled by a descent player... Someone with tactic, someone with strategy.

[vilm]

cybran bots don't have shields unles the new retail patch changed this and I don't think they did, pre-patch UEF bots where the best ones too, folowed by aeon and cybran

[Leaf]

cybran bots don't have shields unles the new retail patch changed this and I don't think they did, pre-patch UEF bots where the best ones too, folowed by aeon and cybran

Well i suppose UEF have to be best at something now don't they, *looks at Mavor*...I take it back!

Aslong as you've got the power to spare (for their shields) I suppose UEF bots definately look like the best bet atm.

[vilm]

20 power aint really that much. You should atleast have 1 or 2 T2 powers and if you can get a T3 generator up, you don't have to wory about anything at all. 1 T2 generator should be able to support like 12.5 T3 bots. You do have to get some more T2 generators maybe when you get too much bots, but you should expand your economy anyway once you hit T3

edit:
cybran bots don't have shields, i think you are mistaking them with thei anti missile defense thingy. Any missile send at them, from mobile missile launchers or static one's, will be send back at the target.

[Graushwein]

All stats gotten from gpg official link here SupCom Units Database

Cybran Loyalist
Armor: 4200 / 4200hp (regen rate: 0, armor: Normal)
Abilities: EMP Meltdown: Stuns Enemy on Death
Economy: mass: 540 (+0), energy: 4050 (+0), build time: 1350
Intel: vision radius: 26 (508m)
Physics: size: 0.4W (7.8m) x 0.7H (13.7m) x 1.1D (21.5m), max speed: 3 (58.6m/s), turn rate: 146
Transport: class: 3
Veterancy: 30, 60, 150, 300, 600 (kills for each level)
veteran level 2: add 1050 hp, repair 1050 hp, veteran level 4: add 1050 hp, repair 1050 hp, veteran level 5: repair 2 hp/s
Weapons:
Disintegrator Pulse Laser (Direct Fire, Normal): 71.74 damage per second, range: 0 (0.0m) - 32 (625m)
projectile: 55 damage, muzzle velocity: 22 (430m/s)
fire cycle: 3 times 1 projectile every 0.1 second(s) + 2.1 second(s) reload = 2.3 second(s) total, 165 damage total
turret pitch range: ±45° (60°/s), turret yaw range: ±180° (60°/s)
Heavy Electron Bolter (Direct Fire, Normal): 20.00 damage per second, range: 0 (0.0m) - 32 (625m)
projectile: 6 damage, muzzle velocity: 22 (430m/s)
fire cycle: 1 projectile every 0.3 second(s) = 0.3 second(s) total, 6 damage total
turret pitch range: ±45° (90°/s), turret yaw range: ±45° (90°/s)
EMP: 0.50 damage per second, range: 0 (0.0m) - 1.5 (29.3m)
projectile: 1 damage, area damage radius: 10 (195m)
fire cycle: 1 projectile every 2.0 second(s) = 2.0 second(s) total, 1 damage total

UEF Titan
Armor: 2200 / 2200hp (regen rate: 0, armor: Normal)
Shield: 2500hp (size: 2.5 (48.8m), regen rate: 167, regen start time: 45, recharge time: 60)
Abilities: Shield
Economy: mass: 440 (+0), energy: 3600 (-25), build time: 1200
Intel: vision radius: 26 (508m)
Physics: size: 0.4W (7.8m) x 0.6H (11.7m) x 1.1D (21.5m), max speed: 2.9 (56.6m/s), turn rate: 146
Transport: class: 3
Veterancy: 30, 60, 150, 300, 600 (kills for each level)
veteran level 2: add 550 hp, repair 550 hp, veteran level 4: add 550 hp, repair 550 hp, veteran level 5: repair 2 hp/s
Weapons:
Heavy Plasma Cannon (Direct Fire, Normal): 100.00 damage per second, range: 0 (0.0m) - 32 (625m)
projectile: 50 damage, muzzle velocity: 22 (430m/s)
fire cycle: 1 projectile every 0.5 second(s) = 0.5 second(s) total, 50 damage total
turret pitch range: ±90° (30°/s), turret yaw range: ±180° (30°/s)

Aeon Harbinger
Armor: 5100 / 5100hp (regen rate: 0, armor: Normal)
Abilities: Reclaims, Repairs
Economy: mass: 480 (+0), energy: 3200 (+0), build time: 1200, build rate: 3
Intel: vision radius: 26 (508m)
Physics: size: 0.4W (7.8m) x 0.6H (11.7m) x 1.1D (21.5m), max speed: 2.8 (54.7m/s), turn rate: 146
Transport: class: 3
Veterancy: 30, 60, 150, 300, 600 (kills for each level)
veteran level 2: add 1275 hp, repair 1275 hp, veteran level 4: add 1275 hp, repair 1275 hp, veteran level 5: repair 2 hp/s
Weapons:
High Intensity Laser (Direct Fire, Normal): 88.46 damage per second, range: 0 (0.0m) - 32 (625m)
projectile: 115 damage, muzzle velocity: 22 (430m/s)
fire cycle: 1 projectile every 1.3 second(s) = 1.3 second(s) total, 115 damage total
turret pitch range: ±50° (30°/s), turret yaw range: ±180° (75°/s)

All ranges, muzzle velocities, and LOS is equal. Of note is the build time though. Harbinger and Titan are 1200 while Loyalist is 1350. Big difference there.

DPS Per Mass
How about we go with DPS Per Mass / Energy:
Titan DPS P M = 100/440 = .22727... DPS P E = 100/3600 = .o277...
Harbi DPS P M = 88.46/480 = .1842... DPS P E = 88.46/3200 = .02764
Loyal DPS P M = 91.74/540 = .1698... DPS P E = 91.74/4050 = .02265

Per Mass the Titan does 19% more DPS per massthan the Harbinger
Per Mass the Titan does 25.3% more DPS per mass than the Loyalist
Per mass the Harbi does 8% more DPS per mass than the Loyalist

The DPS per energy difference is statistically insignificant IMO

Hit Points Per Mass
Lets look at another comparison, Hit Points per Mass
Harbi HP/M = 5100/480 = 10.625
Titan HP/M = 4700/440 = 10.681
Loyal HP/M = 4200/540 = 7.777...

So not only does the Loyalist have inferior DPS per mass but it also has inferior hit points per mass by a margin of about 27%.

Weapon Tracking Speed
Another significant difference is yaw speed of its weapons, read left-right weapon tracking speed.
Harbi turret yaw range: ±180° (75°/s)
Titan turret yaw range: ±180° (30°/s)
Loyal turret yaw range: ±180° (60°/s) on 71.74 DPS and ±45° (90°/s) 20 DPS [I think this is based on the torso facing and not the feet]

Based on that lets see how close a unit, moving 3 units per second, would have to be in order to outpace a Titan's yaw speed while moving in a strait line. (Some math geek check my math on this pls) Each assault bot is .75 units in size by comparison. To make a LONG mathematical story short, a unit would have to be at most 4 squares away to outpace a Titans yaw speed. Way close! Meaning you'd want to run your units through their ranks. (Though if units automatically move their feet to face their target, 146°/s, moving past right next to them won't help. Though I doubt this is true)

So to sum that up, in order to take advantage of the Titan's yaw speed you would have to do some hefty micro. It seems that in a normal combat yaw speed will cause a longer delay when changing targets that are spaced far apart, by degrees.

After you take into account that T3 Assault Bots are always moving in ranked games, this makes for a slim benefit margin compared to your micro time I'd think.

Move Speed
Loyal 3
Harbi 2.8
Titan 2.9

Not big difference here. Sure there is some usefulness, but difference is small.

Lets see what else is different. . .

Unit Size
The bigger they are the more easy they are to hit, supposedly.
Both the Titan and Harbinger have the same dimensions, the Loyalist is bigger.

Ok it looks like I covered all of the quantitative stats. How about the qualitative stats right? I'm sure that by now everyone hates me at this point, but I must be thorough. Here's the home stretch, and the most debatable part!

Special Abilities
Titan Shield = 2500 HP and costs 25 Energy per second.
Recharge time = 60 seconds. Means it will stay at 0-2499 for 45 secs after the last shield hit and then pop back to max shield, handy! The downside is, supposedly, is you take out the UEF's energy generators their shields will go down completely for 60 secs. (Can anyone confirm this? the 45 and 60 conflict, but I know it pops back to 100% instead of regenning slowly.)

Harbinger Reclaim and repair ability. Used at most 1 in every 20-30 top level play. Repairs at 1/4th the rate of a T1 engineer I'm told.

Loyalist has:
Tactical Missile Redirection. Any T2 missile will be directed back in the direction of the aggressor. A T2 mobile missile launcher does 47-53 DPS. This would be very useful if it were worth having T2 in high level play.

EMP meltdown. When a Loyalist dies the area it was destroyed in creates a 10 unit radius EMP cloud, lasts 2 secs, that stuns units in the area for half a second. To give you a better representation of how big this area is, you could fit 314 units in this area. But to be realistic: With group move it would be more like 25-100 units, and non group movement would be more like 5-25 units. Thats if you ran your dying Loyalist into the middle of them. (Completey off the top of my head. I've never been able to found how groups space themselves?)

So, now that I've wasted half of my non-busy work day, how do you guys feel about these stats?

[Zavior]

Titans > Harbingers > Loyalists
While the tac missile reflect on loyalist is nice, it does no good in a pure t3 force figth..

[zhrance]

WoW Gaushwein nice write up! you should make an article about that!

[Leaf]

"The comprehensive guide to T3 Bots," that'd be a nice title.

So it looks like, in most situations, UEF have narrowly the best bots, closely followed by Aeon and then Cybran.

[Graushwein]

I think I'll write that up. Currently I'm sending it through the GPG forums so that flamers can catch my mistakes. Amazing that they can actually be useful!

Already found some misworded stuff so I'll start the write-up. Hopefully a day or so.

Good title by the way.