[SexE]

This topic will probably and hopefully bring up some good views.

My Opinion is that UEF are very slighlty underpowered and Aeon a fair bit over powered NOW!

Now when the game was launched it was fairly balanced albeit the mantis needed a little Nerf and the ACU needed doing due to ppl going for draws when losing

Now I dont play Aeon much but do like them (want to get good with 1 faction 1st!)

Anyway this is the way I see it:

Cybrans were!(are nearly) average all the way theough from T1-T4! I think maybe at T2 they have an advantage over other T2 but this is balanced through other areas on factions & the mantis WAS a strong point

UEF are fairly dominant at air and have useful splash damage on T1 arty and are ok at Naval also their T3 bots are hardest bearing mind power for the shields(albeit only a little)

Aeon however seem a little overpowered in certain areas, now their T1 PD is an advantage over others thats fine, their Naval is superior by far, ok thats a strength of theirs,flare seems the best light mech! thats fine..
But to add they have the T1 bomber which in my opinion is not fair!(Overpowered) and since the Nerf their Aurora is too good having water advantage is one thing but being as good as all other T1 is not really fair In my opinion

Using Auroras with PD was a good strategy and still is but having a strong T1 Tank! and T1 PD is abit over the top with all the other areas looked at as they have their advantages in other areas

I think a Re-Look at the rock paper scissors is in order, now most ppl compare T3 siege to T3 siege but i think that the game is and was not done like that some advantages would be found in other ways this is something to bear in mind when ppl comapere stuff in the game.

If u thought mantis were way to good then I feel ur looking at it wrong as it meant different strategy from other factions like get a PD up to support attacks as or yes attack but tech up sooner and take advantage of other units! possibly fool them into a position of strength! im not too sure on what tactics you may use but their is always away.. maybe they need looking at!

At present to solve this i would say:
Put mantis back up 70-80% to how they were (turret speed /power) they cant track moving units at present!
Lower the effectiveness of the Aeon T1 bomber
Improve the UEF scout, ok it has a gun and losses a little radius on its view/radar but c'mon give it a gun which does somthing maybe 70% as good as a light vehicle/hunter/flare!
Possibly Look at UEF maybe make their T3 bot a little more better or lower the effectiveness of the other 2! only a fraction.


ACU The next bit I think needs looking at is your1 and Only Commander
I am not quite up on what has or hasn't been done to the ACU but i feel they all need more HP as standard, if ppl let their ACU be sniped then their fault and I am a fool that does this but i still think he dies to easy.

I was thinking of a 5000 -7000 hp increase on all of them, at the end of the day that is only 1 more strat bomber or 2-3 more T3 siege bots needed to own him but i feel this would make more intresting use of the ACU and better gameplay.

Also I will go look at UEF more now but if the other changes are done i feel they will fit in a bit better. Or though I think their T2PD needs improvement it may be balanced somwhere else like their T2 Arty is superior!

Please any thoughts on this or other ideas post :-)

[SpelingChampian]

The biggest issue I think is Transport Dropping your ACU (not in ranked) but in modes like Supremacy. I think the strat is valid, but maybe do a little less damage...

In regards to the Aeon units yes they have some major advantages (longer range, more firepower...), but they also have some major disadvantages (retreat=useless, T1 bomber has less splash than the other factions, slower attack rates, line of fire (terrain issues)...)

I really can only defend factions at the moment as I think I'm too inexperienced to suggest properly (I really don't know anything yet...) Are my points valid?

[b4t3m4n]

I agree with a lot of this, except the acu hp increase. I really don't like how a lot of 1 vs 1 have this point where the acu's stand in the middle and shoot eachother simply because you can't afford to let the other acu build something. I really don't know how to fix this. Also, on the same level, its annoying when you realize their acu is on the otherside of the map and you have nothing in the tech1 level to counter him, other than PD's that are slow to build early in a game.
I don't know what the answers are, but increasing hp would just turn them into more of a one many army than they already are.

[SexE]

Possibly to solve that you can make the ACU's gun affect each other more! as it already does as a OC dosent do much to each ACU but everthing else goes bang if you use OC.

At the same time using your most Powerful Unit to secure ground is a very good and sensible tactic, I was useless at it but getting better with Practice.

But Back to the Points I hope we get more input and ppl's views.

[b4t3m4n]

Either harbinger needs nerfed, or loyalist needs boosted. Today, I had this guy pushed clear back to his base with 2 loyalists and a handful of tech 1 bots going in the for the kill and a train of loyalist coming in as well from behind. Right when I got there, a harbinger rolled off the production for him. With his acu, a few t1 units and that harbinger he halted the attack, and pushed me back and eventually killed me since my loyalists didn't stand a change against the harbingers.

I fought the same opponent again, same thing happened, but this time he was a second to slow and I hurt his economy enough before the second harbinger got built, but it was wayyyyy too close considering I was dominating him land wise.

[Leaf]

At present to solve this i would say:
Put mantis back up 70-80% to how they were (turret speed /power) they cant track moving units at present!
Lower the effectiveness of the Aeon T1 bomber
Improve the UEF scout, ok it has a gun and losses a little radius on its view/radar but c'mon give it a gun which does somthing maybe 70% as good as a light vehicle/hunter/flare!
Possibly Look at UEF maybe make their T3 bot a little more better or lower the effectiveness of the other 2! only a fraction.

UEF Scout ideas=barely relevant, it's a scout , it's scouts, the Cybran scout doesn't even have a damn gun and it makes no difference.

I'd leave Mantis as they are. They are the fastest, most menouverable T1 basic unit and I seriously doubt ideas about them being disadvantaged...

My only gripe with the UEF T3 Bot is that it doesn't have 360 degree attack radius, that actually contributed to me losing a game earlier tonight and it annoyed me that the thought came "If these were Harbingers, his ACU would be dead, *sigh*"

Still, they have shields FFS! We cannot complain.

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The ACU argument is problematic and I'd actually endorse a rather indirect solution. Increase the build-rate of the ACU by say, 10% and reduce the buold rate of all engineers (and assisters, eg Mantis) by 10%. This double-edged modification would increase the value of having the ACU at home assisting base production/teching rather then using him as a giant metal Rambo up-front.

The details of this change would depend on excactly how exact we wanted to be. Would it be plausible to say, reduce ACU build rates for all PD/AA, lessenign his usefulness for building front-line defences and making him more valuable at home.

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It's a difficult issue as we are trying to balance the "king" character in a game that basically comes down to Regicide. I think it's apt that OC should be uesless vs ACUs, I'm a little concerned about the rapidity at which OC can be reloaded, as this can lead to "base-swapping" where one player with a power excess goes on a rampage through his opponents base, one-shotting facs with OC before retreating into the sea (Finn's Revenge anyone? I know I've done it!)


Whatever is done, if anything, should be done with great consideration. A simple HP alteration will not solve the issue, if it is even one that should be solved...Are we sure that we want to bring Sup-Com more in line with traditional RTS by making the ACU less useful on the frontline, surely that's part of what makes the game different!

Edward Bond (excellent playwright btw) said that "It is often a mistake to learn from experience." Taking those words on board, we ought to be careful of attempting to 'balance' something that doesn't fit the standard RTS package we've come to align our gameplay to. Perhaps Rock Paper Scissors is evolving with new factors, who are we to hold it back...

P.S. Yes, Harbingers are a bit silly, I like Loyalists, I like em a lot, Titans too but Harbis atm basically dominate, mainly due to 360 degree firing IMHO.