aeon imbalance, how did this happen?

b4t3m4n · 03-30-2007, 06:33 AM

How did the Aeon get out of beta being so imbalanced. I have spent some time really looking through the unit stats lately and it seems nearly every Aeon unit is a bit better than their counter parts (even the shield gens). Not to mention, their direct damage, less aoe methods seem to be loads more practical. Also, how the hell did they ever think giving the aurora so much more range than its counterparts was a good idea.

I was looking for something the cybran excel at to really take advantage of it, but there isn't much, especially on a tight map like WD. I guess I will have to accept losses on it.

Leaf · 03-30-2007, 01:06 PM

To a point I'd agree. The UEF and especially the Cybran do seem to get a bit screwed over in certain areas. For the Cybran it's definately in their T1 Arty, T2 PD (which never seems to properly hit), Shield gens, ACU HP of all things?!?

The list goes on...

Yet, I think imbalance is also overstated. A note on Auroras.

They are slower then manti and undeniably less menouvreable, on a map like say...Arctic Refuge or Saltrock Colony, Manti can simply run around auroras and sink their teeth into the enemy economy (lots of spread out mexes). ATM there seems to be precious little exploitation of this general slowness of T1 Aeon units (bots aside).

However, on certain maps and situations there is no denying Aeon superiority I suppose, WD is a bitch of a map, all those cliffs and few mexes entirley change the gameplay dynamic. Generally slightly better T1 Units, good arty (in relation to the Medusa, which is a bit of a joke tbh) and sweet bombers make them tough sods on that map.

However, we are basing such arguments on the assumption that both players are playing to the same level. I'll confess, i've lost games as Aeon to Cybran on WD, not due to imba but because he played better, simple as.

As people get more relaxed into the game more imba accusations will start flying around, contrary to logic (in my experience) it seems that the longer a game is played the more ridiculous and unlikely the "imba" calls become.

As for Aeon themselves, the imba is mainly map-specific sadly, which makes it a nightmare to balance, we may simply have to accept that Aeon are just better on water maps and close maps where there is nog etting round them, whislt cybran have an advantage where there is more to be gained from avoiding direct fighting.

SexE · 03-30-2007, 03:45 PM

We shouldn't have to settle for Aeon being like that though!

The Mantis needs it turret speed back up 50-70% how it was
The Aeon T1 bomber needs to cost more or have a slight reduction in power
The T2 PD Cerebus needs to be more accurate
The same for the UEF T2 PD needs improvement.
Apparently the Rhino misses and hits the gound?? (Cybran T2 tank)
The Loyalist EMP on death needs a larger range as it never gets any use
The ACU'S need 3000-5000 more HP as standard (check out the no upgrade for Cybran but shields for other 2 Faction's!...)

Quick reasons's:
Mantis is supposed to be the T1 HEAVY Bot! ( a cybran strength or was)
Aeon Aurora owns on water, owns on power, owns on range too much!
Aeon T1 bomber a little overpowered as kills u eaerly on power gens and if u do smae back not same affect un lees you ahve a few but Aeon AA is better at T1
T2 PD cerbus misses and it supports T3 bot (Loyalist) as its weakest!
Same UEF T2 PD is no good waste of mass nearly!
Loyalist- self explantory nothing is in range of its death as they shoot from distance! so it needs larger radius of EMP on Death
ACU'S die to easy at T1 and early T2 too expensive to upgrade, well their is no upgrade for Cybran unless you have loads of power for stealth which dosent comapare to others shields- for instance ranked most small maps, you can always find the ACU and its so easy to kill ..GAME OVER!

Aeon also own on water pretty much so why T1 land and T1 air to a certain extent? and their T1 PD.

I will say Aeon's Czar needs 2000 more HP , ok its a staging facility but it is also T4 (EXP)

I would leave the arty as is and sort mantis as these are the stregths and weakneses in the Balance .

b4t3m4n · 03-30-2007, 05:22 PM

I have to say that the Czar is terrible. They said they fashioned it after the ships from Independence Day so why not go all the way. Make them slower moving, but much much much more hp. Change their weapon so that instead of a constant beam, its a one shot beam with a very very long reload time. The beam makes a wave that radiates out destroying everything, even larger than a nuke radius. Would make it more useful, strategic and entertaining.

SAMs are just way to easy to spam. Why they decided to make a T3 air defense and not a T3 ground defense is beyond me.

SexE · 03-30-2007, 06:17 PM

Yeah would be nice to be able to Upgrade the T2 PD...
:-)

Pulse518 · 03-30-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaf

we may simply have to accept that Aeon are just better on water maps and close maps where there is nog etting round them, whislt cybran have an advantage where there is more to be gained from avoiding direct fighting.

i dissagree on that one.
it woud be okay in a system that allows us to see what map we will play, but on a system that trows us in random games and random maps that cant be a option since it woud make the ladder not skilled based and more luck based (who ever has more luck with his map is higher on the tops?! no no please.)

that balance is preaty okay.. if we woud not have the random game system.. on a system like that the Factions needs to be extreamly well balanced, otherwise it woud just not be worth playing the ladder.

i dissagree on the 'cybran ACu needs more HP', all we need is a to make the upgrades cheaper, a cybran ACU upgraded with both cloacksystem is nearly unbeatable and can solo take out any other unit expect the GC.

one quest for the End:
why does everyone says the Cybrans are the most offensiv race when all there units that are needed for the offensiv are worse and more expensiv then the ones from the other fraction?

b4t3m4n · 03-31-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulse518

one quest for the End:
why does everyone says the Cybrans are the most offensiv race when all there units that are needed for the offensiv are worse and more expensiv then the ones from the other fraction?

A lot of their stuff has the highest DPS, but its a trivial difference.

Pulse518 · 03-31-2007, 01:35 AM

well, only some defens systems has higher DPS then the ones from the other factions, the only Unit with higher DPS woud be the T2 MMS.
besides that, DPS alone isent something you shoud compare the units on, the abilety to aim, HP and a lot of stuff works in that too and if you count everything together the cybran units are the overall worse.

the only thing they have is a mobile steahlt gen system that is somewhat useless against a player that scouts a lot.

b4t3m4n · 03-31-2007, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulse518

well, only some defens systems has higher DPS then the ones from the other factions, the only Unit with higher DPS woud be the T2 MMS.
besides that, DPS alone isent something you shoud compare the units on, the abilety to aim, HP and a lot of stuff works in that too and if you count everything together the cybran units are the overall worse.

the only thing they have is a mobile steahlt gen system that is somewhat useless against a player that scouts a lot.

I agree, I was just answering your question

03-30-2007, 06:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
b4t3m4n Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: --> Here <-- Posts: 85	aeon imbalance, how did this happen? How did the Aeon get out of beta being so imbalanced. I have spent some time really looking through the unit stats lately and it seems nearly every Aeon unit is a bit better than their counter parts (even the shield gens). Not to mention, their direct damage, less aoe methods seem to be loads more practical. Also, how the hell did they ever think giving the aurora so much more range than its counterparts was a good idea. I was looking for something the cybran excel at to really take advantage of it, but there isn't much, especially on a tight map like WD. I guess I will have to accept losses on it. __________________ hmm, what to put here

03-30-2007, 05:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
b4t3m4n Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: --> Here <-- Posts: 85	I have to say that the Czar is terrible. They said they fashioned it after the ships from Independence Day so why not go all the way. Make them slower moving, but much much much more hp. Change their weapon so that instead of a constant beam, its a one shot beam with a very very long reload time. The beam makes a wave that radiates out destroying everything, even larger than a nuke radius. Would make it more useful, strategic and entertaining. SAMs are just way to easy to spam. Why they decided to make a T3 air defense and not a T3 ground defense is beyond me. __________________ hmm, what to put here

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03-30-2007, 01:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Leaf Senior Member AKA: The Nomad Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aberystwyth UNI. Posts: 201	To a point I'd agree. The UEF and especially the Cybran do seem to get a bit screwed over in certain areas. For the Cybran it's definately in their T1 Arty, T2 PD (which never seems to properly hit), Shield gens, ACU HP of all things?!? The list goes on... Yet, I think imbalance is also overstated. A note on Auroras. They are slower then manti and undeniably less menouvreable, on a map like say...Arctic Refuge or Saltrock Colony, Manti can simply run around auroras and sink their teeth into the enemy economy (lots of spread out mexes). ATM there seems to be precious little exploitation of this general slowness of T1 Aeon units (bots aside). However, on certain maps and situations there is no denying Aeon superiority I suppose, WD is a bitch of a map, all those cliffs and few mexes entirley change the gameplay dynamic. Generally slightly better T1 Units, good arty (in relation to the Medusa, which is a bit of a joke tbh) and sweet bombers make them tough sods on that map. However, we are basing such arguments on the assumption that both players are playing to the same level. I'll confess, i've lost games as Aeon to Cybran on WD, not due to imba but because he played better, simple as. As people get more relaxed into the game more imba accusations will start flying around, contrary to logic (in my experience) it seems that the longer a game is played the more ridiculous and unlikely the "imba" calls become. As for Aeon themselves, the imba is mainly map-specific sadly, which makes it a nightmare to balance, we may simply have to accept that Aeon are just better on water maps and close maps where there is nog etting round them, whislt cybran have an advantage where there is more to be gained from avoiding direct fighting.

03-30-2007, 03:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
SexE Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 33	We shouldn't have to settle for Aeon being like that though! The Mantis needs it turret speed back up 50-70% how it was The Aeon T1 bomber needs to cost more or have a slight reduction in power The T2 PD Cerebus needs to be more accurate The same for the UEF T2 PD needs improvement. Apparently the Rhino misses and hits the gound?? (Cybran T2 tank) The Loyalist EMP on death needs a larger range as it never gets any use The ACU'S need 3000-5000 more HP as standard (check out the no upgrade for Cybran but shields for other 2 Faction's!...) Quick reasons's: Mantis is supposed to be the T1 HEAVY Bot! ( a cybran strength or was) Aeon Aurora owns on water, owns on power, owns on range too much! Aeon T1 bomber a little overpowered as kills u eaerly on power gens and if u do smae back not same affect un lees you ahve a few but Aeon AA is better at T1 T2 PD cerbus misses and it supports T3 bot (Loyalist) as its weakest! Same UEF T2 PD is no good waste of mass nearly! Loyalist- self explantory nothing is in range of its death as they shoot from distance! so it needs larger radius of EMP on Death ACU'S die to easy at T1 and early T2 too expensive to upgrade, well their is no upgrade for Cybran unless you have loads of power for stealth which dosent comapare to others shields- for instance ranked most small maps, you can always find the ACU and its so easy to kill ..GAME OVER! Aeon also own on water pretty much so why T1 land and T1 air to a certain extent? and their T1 PD. I will say Aeon's Czar needs 2000 more HP , ok its a staging facility but it is also T4 (EXP) I would leave the arty as is and sort mantis as these are the stregths and weakneses in the Balance .

03-30-2007, 06:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
SexE Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 33	Yeah would be nice to be able to Upgrade the T2 PD... :-)

03-31-2007, 01:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
Pulse518 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4	well, only some defens systems has higher DPS then the ones from the other factions, the only Unit with higher DPS woud be the T2 MMS. besides that, DPS alone isent something you shoud compare the units on, the abilety to aim, HP and a lot of stuff works in that too and if you count everything together the cybran units are the overall worse. the only thing they have is a mobile steahlt gen system that is somewhat useless against a player that scouts a lot.