i want the patch to feel PAIN - Page 2

Poita_ · 05-28-2007, 02:13 AM

Learn to adapt. You can't just play your cookie-cutter strategies all the time you know. That's what separates the good players from the bad. Everyone else managed to migrate just fine, why not you?

HamsterofDeath · 05-28-2007, 02:18 AM

i can adapt, it's just too troublesome. how to get my account banned? this game is too addictive. i can get it back after giving it away by resetting the password. i need to get the account banned or something or i will begin playing again.

oh, and
DON'T IMPLY I'M A BAD PLAYER. just because i don't like the balance changes doesn't make me stupid.

Quote:

Everyone else managed to migrate just fine, why not you?

if you like, i can say it again:
the patch effectively erased everything i learned during the last 2 months. i cannot simply adapt, i'd have to RE-LEARN THE COMPLETE FUCKING GAME, because right now, the only thing that makes me win is having a better eco. i have no idea what to build why and when. my skill went to down to 30% and all attempts to modify my strats failed. i've tried to develop new ones, but it is BY FAR too time-consuming. i'd need weeks, if not a month to reach my pre-patch skill, and it doesn't feel fair to train a month for something i should own right now.
i mean, i was ranked 36 pre-patch and still had no unovercomeable obstacles, and now went down to >100 in just 2 days of playing - post-patch
every loss, i think "what the hell went wrong this time", every win is like "i had better eco and no plan at all". i'm playing blind. you could make a dice decide your strategy and beat me.

and even if i did it, there is no guarantee the next patch won't ruin that again.

Aquan · 05-28-2007, 07:14 AM

You are one strange hamster

relentless · 05-28-2007, 08:48 AM

I see the comedy in it, but man, all that time spent getting to rank 36 then throwing it all away.. especially when no other rts even compares.

Leaf · 05-28-2007, 05:11 PM

<<Agrees with Relentless...

I'm now going to say what everyone is really thinking...

Quit moaning! Alright, you developed fine-tuned strategies, congratulations have a cookie! However, throwing a hissy fit when a patch that EVERYBODY knew was going to change a lot comes along and suddenly those "fine-tuned" strats need retuning is extremely childish. Giving away your key and login on GPGnet was rather irrational, rash but probably not fatal, I doubt the guy you gave it to will use it much (bearing in mind he was also on gpgnet at the time).

Your (and you have to admit that it is) endless whining is pretty repetitive and amounts to the following. "I had everything down, the patch changed things, now I can do nothing." The fact that you were basing your game on a series of pre-made decisions tells me that you will never be top 10, guaranteed 100% I would bet money on it. If you cannot adapt, rely on excessive planning rather then having the "feel" of the game, your playstyle will not be fluid enough to get you very far. Frankly, I'm surprised you made it to rank 36 with that kind of playstyle...

So, to summarise...Quit moaning, grow up.

HamsterofDeath · 05-28-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

The fact that you were basing your game on a series of pre-made decisions tells me that you will never be top 10, guaranteed 100%

you're wrong here. it is an urban legend that you cannot win a game by not adapting to the enemy. it is an urban legend that there is no best strategy.

a simple example is connect4. there is a perfect move defined by a series of rules. if you follow it, you will never lose if you're the second player, and win every time you're the first one.

adapting is a powerful way to play, but it has limits. you can only adapt to what the enemy is doing, not to what he is going to do. using a plan gets rid of the "scout, then adapt"-lag

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retuning

retuning would be done by now. it's not possible.

Poita_ · 05-28-2007, 05:37 PM

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i've tried to develop new ones, but it is BY FAR too time-consuming.

Why is it so time consuming? Seriously, if you can't figure out how to do a fast tier 2 without taking weeks of practice then I'm sorry but you are just not a good player.

You do not need to relearn the whole game because it's still the same game. You just need to learn new strategies, which will take a few minutes at most. Just watch a replay of a good player and do what he does if you can't be bothered figuring it out yourself.

You tell us not to imply that you are a bad player but you admit that you cannot easily adapt to the game. Okay, bad player would probably be a bit harsh but a player that cannot adapt easily should not be top 50.

Quote:

you're wrong here. it is an urban legend that you cannot win a game by not adapting to the enemy. it is an urban legend that there is no best strategy.

adapting is a powerful way to play, but it has limits. you can only adapt to what the enemy is doing, not to what he is going to do. using a plan gets rid of the "scout, then adapt"-lag

Hahaha, urban legends eh? Yes, it would be wrong to say that you cannot win a game without adapting but it is not true that there is a best strategy, there is no one strategy that beats every other strategy.

Adapting and planning are not opposites but should be used together. At first you simply cannot scout fast enough to adapt at all so you must follow a plan but once you have a scout you should be adapting to your opponent and switching plans. For example, if you see your opponent is playing less agressively then you could switch to your fast t2 BO, or if you saw he had no AA you could switch to a t1 gunship rush for example. If you just decide at the start that you are going to do fast tier 2 no matter what he does then you'll never be a top player.

HamsterofDeath · 05-28-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

You just need to learn new strategies, which will take a few minutes at most.

watching someone use a strat: minutes
mastering the strat: weeks

Quote:

Why is it so time consuming? Seriously, if you can't figure out how to do a fast tier 2 without taking weeks of practice then I'm sorry but you are just not a good player.

going t2 is not a problem. the problem is finetuning. pre-patch, i KNEW what my enemy could have built in the time i'd need for teching up. now, i don't know it, so i cannot plan ahead, so my skill goes down. i lack experience now.

Quote:

Yes, it would be wrong to say that you cannot win a game without adapting but it is not true that there is a best strategy, there is no one strategy that beats every other strategy.

this is what everyone keeps telling me, but it's just wrong. maybe you call a fixed build order and then attacking a strategy. i don't.

Quote:

For example, if you see your opponent is playing less agressively then you could switch to your fast t2 BO, or if you saw he had no AA you could switch to a t1 gunship rush for example. If you just decide at the start that you are going to do fast tier 2 no matter what he does then you'll never be a top player.

let me explain:
if i scout, see, and then build, there is a certain time until i can use the weakness i discovered. this method is unreliable. instead, i use strategies that are completely researched. i know what can go wrong, and i can prepare for it. i know what damage i can do with it, i know what i can't do with it.

prepatch, on arctic refuge, i always built t2 gunships after reaching t3. why? because in 95% of all cases, there will be an opening where i can use them. i don't need to scout to know there is one. there will be one. no one plays perfectly, so everyone will sooner or later mess something up, and i can attack. even if the enemy starts to spam aa turrets, i can still use the gunships for defense against t3 ground or kill mass ex. even in the worst case (enemy builds t1 air), my gunship attack is just postponed - i will keep them in my base until i get his air units killed or outnumber them with my own. they don't need much mass, so my t3 ground force was still pretty strong.
why after t3 and not before? before, it's an all or nothing-tactic. if it fails, i have spent lots of resources into it, and will most likely be outnumbered on ground. but after reaching t3, i have enough energy to spam gunships. and enough mass.
i sandboxed around (in ranked games^^) to find the best timing for starting to build them, and i'm pretty sure i found a good one.

multiply the above with every ranked map and race i could encounter, and you will see there is a lot of work being messed up by changing some small details in the units stats. the basic strats may still work, but they are by far less effective because i don't catch the enemy "off guard", or rather, according to my plan.

a simple example: pre-patch, if i built a, then b, then did c, then did d, i could do a maximum amount of damage of killing 4 power gens using force e, which then allows me to do f or g, and forces the enemy to do x, y or z. post-patch, c wouldn't work as expected, so c, d and e cannot be executed properly, and i'm screwed.

AngryZealot · 05-28-2007, 07:13 PM

If your strategies were really that detailed and good, you would be undefeated.

Since you are undefeated I can only infer that they weren't that good.

Quit crying and adapt like everyone else.

ShloobeR · 05-28-2007, 07:24 PM

hehe

9 out of 8 games is pretty unfortunate.

That means you lost like 110% of your games since coming back, thats a terrible ratio!

Have you not considered that perhaps your strats aren't working because you are facing people who have adapted to your strats or are just generally better then those you played before? : )

05-28-2007, 07:14 AM	#13 (permalink)
Aquan Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6	HamsterofDeath You are one strange hamster

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05-28-2007, 02:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
Poita_ Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28	Learn to adapt. You can't just play your cookie-cutter strategies all the time you know. That's what separates the good players from the bad. Everyone else managed to migrate just fine, why not you?

05-28-2007, 08:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
relentless Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4	I see the comedy in it, but man, all that time spent getting to rank 36 then throwing it all away.. especially when no other rts even compares.

05-28-2007, 05:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
Leaf Senior Member AKA: The Nomad Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aberystwyth UNI. Posts: 201	<<Agrees with Relentless... I'm now going to say what everyone is really thinking... Quit moaning! Alright, you developed fine-tuned strategies, congratulations have a cookie! However, throwing a hissy fit when a patch that EVERYBODY knew was going to change a lot comes along and suddenly those "fine-tuned" strats need retuning is extremely childish. Giving away your key and login on GPGnet was rather irrational, rash but probably not fatal, I doubt the guy you gave it to will use it much (bearing in mind he was also on gpgnet at the time). Your (and you have to admit that it is) endless whining is pretty repetitive and amounts to the following. "I had everything down, the patch changed things, now I can do nothing." The fact that you were basing your game on a series of pre-made decisions tells me that you will never be top 10, guaranteed 100% I would bet money on it. If you cannot adapt, rely on excessive planning rather then having the "feel" of the game, your playstyle will not be fluid enough to get you very far. Frankly, I'm surprised you made it to rank 36 with that kind of playstyle... So, to summarise...Quit moaning, grow up.

05-28-2007, 07:13 PM	#19 (permalink)
AngryZealot Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1	If your strategies were really that detailed and good, you would be undefeated. Since you are undefeated I can only infer that they weren't that good. Quit crying and adapt like everyone else.

05-28-2007, 07:24 PM	#20 (permalink)
ShloobeR SCL Team Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 49	hehe 9 out of 8 games is pretty unfortunate. That means you lost like 110% of your games since coming back, thats a terrible ratio! Have you not considered that perhaps your strats aren't working because you are facing people who have adapted to your strats or are just generally better then those you played before? : )