How to kill turtle building experimentals?

Statement · 02-21-2008, 05:38 PM

The problem
To be honest, I haven't played online yet. I mainly have played on LAN's with my friends and I'm soon moving over to online gaming.

I just have one ticky guy who always gets his experimentals up around 25 mins of game. From that point on, he just mows down my T2/T3 mix of units. He starts building them around 20 mins most often. He also turtles himself in with shields and AA along with many point defenses out on the far stretches. I know he's just there wasted huge amounts of resources and if I could push through his PD's, he has no defense in the main area. He rarely expands out to the mass extractors outside his base but rapidly upgrades to T3 + Storage early on. Looking at the replays from great players, 20 mins is more than enough to take someone out if they ain't expanding, but I don't just cut it yet.

Game setup
We most often play 2v2 or 3v3, where I am the only aggressive player after reading some guides. I usually mown down one base 10-15 minutes in but I have to practice my eco better. This means that for the most games, I'm the only one going out for mexes and raiding. My team mate just turtles in also. Sometimes we have 10 min no rush which I'm not a too big fan of.

Personally, I usually go with commander + support units to fence off any expansions early on as noone else seems to make heavy use of their commander. This is to my advantage. They also don't know anything about microing so my units lasts much longer than theirs.

Mid game
Let's face it. We (me and my friends) ain't trained killing machines in this game. Our games last up to an hour most times. My economy seems to halt midway on when I start building T3 Siege tanks etc. Five minutes later, the experimental pops out of nowhere. And four minutes after that comes the next one. At this point, I've already lost unless I have my own experimental fending it off or raiding his base - which I don't for the most time.

Replay observations
One thing to consider is by watching the replays I have more mass income than he does until around +70 to +80 mass where he's gone T3 and quite soon he's pulling in 120 mass where I am at 80. On the other side of the coin, I also do a lot of reclaiming so I guess I could push on to T3 much earlier than he does if I ain't raiding so hard.

Final thoughts
So what would you do? Would you bring out your commander to his defensive line with T2 units and spam through the defense to his "mostly-only-airdef" base where he turtles his commander under shields? I might consider going for an upgrade before moving in? What is the key here? More economy so I can outspam him? I really really need to take out his experimentals and from there on it's downhill. This match most often is a 1v2 + 1 observer, where my team mate almost always turtles in as UEF and builds a fatboy or two being very inactive. Maybe I should go for an early experimental sacrificing my defense/offense vs T2 units?

In 99% of the cases, this is his tactic. He blends in AA with his rarely seen mobile forces making him a easy target for concentrated ground attacks. He spams out T2 mobile AA all over his base and I think this is also where his weakness is. I do scout heavily but I always forget to look at the viewing area of the plane as it flies over. Since the ex doesn't stick on the map I don't have a good idea when he starts building it, but it's usually around 20 mins in game where he has positive income and wasting a lot of power.

Zehd · 02-21-2008, 08:06 PM

On which maps do you usually play?

Statement · 02-21-2008, 10:04 PM

Varies, max 10x10 maps. More water than land maps these days it seems.

Zehd · 02-22-2008, 03:28 PM

Then it shoundn't be to hard to win. If you play on a water map take the Aeon. If they really don't build T1 units you can outspam them. You just need to build 5-15 landfactorys. Build a mix of tanks and arty and if the attack you with air some AA, too. With one factory you build only T1 engineer. You need them to build on the conquered masspoints and reclaiming everything. Don't upgrad any factory until you have enough mass. Before you upgrad the factorys you should upgrad the mass extractors to T2. Then upgrad ONE factory and support it with about 20 or more T1 engineers. When you have enough mass to upgrad the next factory, upgrad it.

The most importent things:
PUSH PUSH PUSH
Attack as much as you can.
have some mobile radar around
build enough factorys to outspam
don't go to T2 early, instead build more factorys
if the opponent has some T2 units, kill them with your T1 units.
don't let him build T2 point defence

Statement · 03-01-2008, 12:12 PM

Thanks for the tips. I have been practicing skirmish vs AI to train up my attacking speed. I did what you said but I never got around building more than 5 factories before he was conquered

Tanks + Arty makes a great combo. 8 minutes to take him down. Can't wait for my next match with him, heh.

02-21-2008, 05:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Statement Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	How to kill turtle building experimentals? The problem To be honest, I haven't played online yet. I mainly have played on LAN's with my friends and I'm soon moving over to online gaming. I just have one ticky guy who always gets his experimentals up around 25 mins of game. From that point on, he just mows down my T2/T3 mix of units. He starts building them around 20 mins most often. He also turtles himself in with shields and AA along with many point defenses out on the far stretches. I know he's just there wasted huge amounts of resources and if I could push through his PD's, he has no defense in the main area. He rarely expands out to the mass extractors outside his base but rapidly upgrades to T3 + Storage early on. Looking at the replays from great players, 20 mins is more than enough to take someone out if they ain't expanding, but I don't just cut it yet. Game setup We most often play 2v2 or 3v3, where I am the only aggressive player after reading some guides. I usually mown down one base 10-15 minutes in but I have to practice my eco better. This means that for the most games, I'm the only one going out for mexes and raiding. My team mate just turtles in also. Sometimes we have 10 min no rush which I'm not a too big fan of. Personally, I usually go with commander + support units to fence off any expansions early on as noone else seems to make heavy use of their commander. This is to my advantage. They also don't know anything about microing so my units lasts much longer than theirs. Mid game Let's face it. We (me and my friends) ain't trained killing machines in this game. Our games last up to an hour most times. My economy seems to halt midway on when I start building T3 Siege tanks etc. Five minutes later, the experimental pops out of nowhere. And four minutes after that comes the next one. At this point, I've already lost unless I have my own experimental fending it off or raiding his base - which I don't for the most time. Replay observations One thing to consider is by watching the replays I have more mass income than he does until around +70 to +80 mass where he's gone T3 and quite soon he's pulling in 120 mass where I am at 80. On the other side of the coin, I also do a lot of reclaiming so I guess I could push on to T3 much earlier than he does if I ain't raiding so hard. Final thoughts So what would you do? Would you bring out your commander to his defensive line with T2 units and spam through the defense to his "mostly-only-airdef" base where he turtles his commander under shields? I might consider going for an upgrade before moving in? What is the key here? More economy so I can outspam him? I really really need to take out his experimentals and from there on it's downhill. This match most often is a 1v2 + 1 observer, where my team mate almost always turtles in as UEF and builds a fatboy or two being very inactive. Maybe I should go for an early experimental sacrificing my defense/offense vs T2 units? In 99% of the cases, this is his tactic. He blends in AA with his rarely seen mobile forces making him a easy target for concentrated ground attacks. He spams out T2 mobile AA all over his base and I think this is also where his weakness is. I do scout heavily but I always forget to look at the viewing area of the plane as it flies over. Since the ex doesn't stick on the map I don't have a good idea when he starts building it, but it's usually around 20 mins in game where he has positive income and wasting a lot of power.

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02-21-2008, 08:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zehd Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	On which maps do you usually play?

02-21-2008, 10:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Statement Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Varies, max 10x10 maps. More water than land maps these days it seems.

02-22-2008, 03:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zehd Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Then it shoundn't be to hard to win. If you play on a water map take the Aeon. If they really don't build T1 units you can outspam them. You just need to build 5-15 landfactorys. Build a mix of tanks and arty and if the attack you with air some AA, too. With one factory you build only T1 engineer. You need them to build on the conquered masspoints and reclaiming everything. Don't upgrad any factory until you have enough mass. Before you upgrad the factorys you should upgrad the mass extractors to T2. Then upgrad ONE factory and support it with about 20 or more T1 engineers. When you have enough mass to upgrad the next factory, upgrad it. The most importent things: PUSH PUSH PUSH Attack as much as you can. have some mobile radar around build enough factorys to outspam don't go to T2 early, instead build more factorys if the opponent has some T2 units, kill them with your T1 units. don't let him build T2 point defence

03-01-2008, 12:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
Statement Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Thanks for the tips. I have been practicing skirmish vs AI to train up my attacking speed. I did what you said but I never got around building more than 5 factories before he was conquered Tanks + Arty makes a great combo. 8 minutes to take him down. Can't wait for my next match with him, heh.